a topic on here about 1975 prompted me to write about how, for me, that is and never was or will be an issue.. also, the 144,000 and 'two classes' with memorial partaking, and child abuse are not issues with this religion.
everyone has their unique teachings and personnel problems.. the real problem with this religion was highlighted in the 2008 yearbook.
it gave a story of a young woman who was from estonia who was on the equivalent of american idol for estonia.
Amen to that,
Not only do they rob the individuals of their talents, but also rob society of its potential collective talent.
JW's denigrate careers because they are intended to get you prestige, fame and money. How come they are so quick to rush to hospitals when they are sick. Yeah they want to go to those places infested with those greedy, desirous of fame and prestige doctors. Instead they should go to the humble servants of Jehovah for help, i.e. the elders.
1. mark 7:15 "there is nothing from outside a man that passes into him that can defile him; but the things that issue forth out of a man are the things that defile a man.. so how can eating black pudding or having a blood transfusion be a sin?.
2. roman 14:5 one [man] judges one day as above another; another [man] judges one day as others; let each one be convinced in his own mind.
so how come they say birthdays and festivals are a sin?.
Slimboyfat
Great post. I will use it to explain that the Bible serves to defend the idea that the sky is whatever color you want. In other words, pretty useless.
Cobaltcake,
I know litttle about the Bible, where do I find that
i wanted to start this thread two weeks ago,however i have had alot going on with wifey and the elders,that is another thread.
to be honest my mind has been on my family.
i will be able to discuss the book tommorow morning.
cantleave,
I gave the example of how thanks to compassion and modern medicine people with weak constitutions are cured and allowed to pass their weak traits to the next generation. The numbers increase, but the average individual is statistically not better off.
Regarding your last post, I agree.
Morality is more to do with our being able to work with and survive in social groups. To benefit from the group's protection you need to be accepted. If you do not conform to the groups behaviour you will be ouctcast and vulnerable to attack.
I like that, and doesn't change my premise. "Morality" stregthens the group, not the individual. The long term gain/loss is not certain.
i wanted to start this thread two weeks ago,however i have had alot going on with wifey and the elders,that is another thread.
to be honest my mind has been on my family.
i will be able to discuss the book tommorow morning.
Thank you cofty. I messed up big time, shame on me for allowing the subtle difference in spelling to hide from me the big difference in meaning. And yes, I meant that an amoral individual thrives at the expense of other individuals, not necessarily the group, as you suggest.
The tricky part in our discussion is the word morality. If you restrict it to meaning cooperation, I may agree with you about being for the benefit of the survival of the group, but if you extend it to marriage, homosexuality, and a host of other concepts, then that has nothing to do with natural selection and may or may not have any effect on it. I rather remove the word morality altogether from our discussion and rather deal with cooperation.
I will look into the material you are suggesting
for a while i have been curious about the specific contents of the pages that the wt (bible students) were ordered to remove from the "finished mystery" by the u.s. government.. anyone knows where i can get those pages?.
Thank you guys for your hard work. You provided the clues that I needed. I had the book in my hard drive for a while. I went back and read pages 247-253 and couldn't find anything related to sedition. It was just the typical attack on "christendom". Don't JW's claim that Rutherford and the others were jailed by the instigations of "christendom?? Those pages seem to suggest that. They have a point if you assume that those were the pages that were removed.
Here's my conspiracy theory, which may not be original at all: JW's fabricated the story of "christendom" instigations to cover the actual charges of sedition. I decided to do a search in the PDF file of the Finished Mystery using the word "patriotism" and voila! It sent me to the very bottom of the file where the original pages 247-253 were. The person who created that file added those pages at the end of the file (pages 628 to 634 of the PDF file) So you have two sets of pages 247-253. The original set (removed) is defnitely seditious. The second, the legal one in the revised book, is about how horrible christendom (the pompous frog) is and has been for centuries.
i wanted to start this thread two weeks ago,however i have had alot going on with wifey and the elders,that is another thread.
to be honest my mind has been on my family.
i will be able to discuss the book tommorow morning.
"amoral"? What s that? Are bacteria killing my cells and undermining my health amoral? Are species whose strong males get to mate with most females amoral for not having a marriage certificate that requires monogamus relationships?
You seem to be saying that a "strong" individual would thrive by being amoral at the expense of the group
Besides not making sense, there seems to be an extrapolation of what I am saying. Where have I hinted "at the expense of the group".
Regarding "weak" and "strong" are used in the only context they can be used, individual/species with traits that make them more or less likely to survive. I don't understand what's so hard to understand.
i wanted to start this thread two weeks ago,however i have had alot going on with wifey and the elders,that is another thread.
to be honest my mind has been on my family.
i will be able to discuss the book tommorow morning.
Cofty,
Now you are parsing... or carping, or are you playing Socrates here. I will let you have it your way.
Cooperation and compassion certainly have increased the numbers of humans. Numbers alone is a good advantage. Compare 7 billion to 7 spread accross the globe. Under what circumstance is the species stronger, and therefore more likely to survive?
On the other hand, compassion and cooperation has helped the weaker individuals to survive and pass their weak traits to the next generation. The greatest factor driving your medical insurance costs up is coming precisely from our attempts to undermine natural selection at its more basic form (survival of the fittest).
Do we have a net gain or a net loss. Don't know. Time will tell, but I won't be around to see the final results.
i wanted to start this thread two weeks ago,however i have had alot going on with wifey and the elders,that is another thread.
to be honest my mind has been on my family.
i will be able to discuss the book tommorow morning.
EP
Good point. Coackroaches will outlive us too. My statement is valid when I limit the scope, as I should have done. I certainly was thinking of complex organisms with similar characteristics where the main difference is the level of intelligence. Of all the hominidae, humans are better equipped for survival mainly because their higher intelligence. Are there other traits that make us weaker? I don't know, let's wait for the next global catclysm.
however- many jw's who have come into the jw organization from like 1985 forward virtually may have no knowledge of the wt society's 1975 debacle and false predictions of the end times or armageddon predictions.
just like in in the book 1984 by george orwell the wt society has a way of not only erasing it's history so no newer witnesses will be aware of their false predictions, but also they are re-writing their history as if those false predictions never happened.. so for those of you here who may have never read or heard of how whipped up into an emotional frenzy witnesses were in the years just before 1975 by the wt society claiming the end was any day now- this threads for you.
to see the pressure that was put on jw's by the wt society to get rid of everything before " armageddon " .
"Armageddon in 1975" is an excellent book. I found a site to get it. I am not sure if that's the one I got the book from. Be cautious.
http://www.4shared.com/office/LBhDVLeg/armageddon_in_1975.html
for a while i have been curious about the specific contents of the pages that the wt (bible students) were ordered to remove from the "finished mystery" by the u.s. government.. anyone knows where i can get those pages?.
For a while I have been curious about the specific contents of the pages that the WT (Bible Students) were ordered to remove from the "Finished Mystery" by the U.S. government.
Anyone knows where I can get those pages?
